What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Fast and accurate. Great round. Like it better than .40 cal.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

This sounds kinda stupid, but I won't buy a handgun if I can't find the ammo at my local Wal Mart. Availabilty on even the common calibers; 9mm, 40 S&W, .45 ACP, etc are very tight. .357 Sig? Fuggitabout it!

I'm more flexible-minded on long arms!

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Awesome advice....you are in my camp.

Just go to a +P 9mm or +P 45 ACP.....The +P 45ACP is cranking out 530 foot pounds of energy in a .452 diameter with some serious expansion bullets....this is about as bad ass as it gets!

I do not think any +P 40S&W exists....they are very high pressure to start with.....

Sh!t can your thoughts on the odd Sig.....

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

What is Sig denoting? Sig Arms? Are there other mfrs who chamber for Sig? Longtime burning questions I've never researched.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Sig sauer and federal cartridge developed the round. There are several firearms manufacturers chambering for this caliber. Sig Sauer, Glock, Springfield armory, etc...

The reason I have one is I bought a Sig P229 in .40. With some Sig pistols you can just buy another barrel for $100.
It's like having 2 guns in one. .357 sig and .40 S&W.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Exactly.

:applause_

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I felt the same way. However, I too bought a .40 cal Sig and then went for the .357 barrel. I now own the P229 and P239 in .357 Sig. In addition, the P226 9mm, P239 9mm, and the P250 9mm.

I like Sigs, can you tell? lol I also own a kimber and hate it. Anyway, the .357 Sig round is wicked! It's the only round the Secret Service uses - for a reason. It is a hard round to shoot and EXPENSIVE. However, I find it fun, and within a few years it will be widley available.

For carry, I carry a 9mm with Mag-Safe rounds. Probably the best advice anyone can give - MAG-SAFE Rounds. FWIW, I'd need a crimson trace grip with a laser, if I were to carry a .357 Sig chambered gun for protection.

A .357 Sig round is fun, but not very practical yet. Try, if you can, shooting off a P239 in a .357 Sig round - Shoot of a whole box. I bet you $50.00 bucks your arms, back, or wrist will be hurtin..., and you probably won't be able to get on target come round 40 or so... Have Fun and enjoy the sport!

My two cents... Buy a Sig P250 in 9mm, then all you will need to do is buy the barrel when it comes available. The Sig P250 should be banned, it's sooooo easy to shoot. Takes away all the fun.

Good Luck :23_1_22:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I like the 357 Sig cartridge. My Glock 33 is sitting in my belt holster as I type. And Winchester 125 JHP in 357Sig is much more available than 9mm at my Walmart.

That said, it is not one I would recommend for a first-time buyer...only for someone more experienced. Ammo more expensive, generally less available, tricky to reload...

However, on the plus side, any Glock 40 caliber will take a drop-in barrel chambered in 357Sig and without any other changes, shoot it very accurately, moreso than even the 40. No mag changes either. Two calibers, one pistol.

The Sig chambering produces approx. 5000psi higher pressure than 40 SW. It is a real firebreather, produces snappier recoil, flatter shooting out to 100-150 yards, and will eat any 9mm's lunch. It's development is still in it's infancy, IMO.

Many agencies carry it.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

You are not taking in the penetration factor.
http://www.gunweek.com/2002/feature0210.html

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/w...57.compare.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_357Sig.htm

I too carry a G33.
Wouldn't trade it for the world.

At home, I'd reach for my .45.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Seems like that cartridge would be a heavy hitter in a carbine or SMG.

It'd be cool if someone developed one.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Like a Glock carbine?....Ohhhh, a puppy just died. :bawling:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

:rofl:

I should have known that was an unorigional idea.:thumb.aspx:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

The round may be good, but it is too rare for my tastes.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

That's how I feel about it. And if I wanted to have a rare caliber gun, it would be 10mm.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

.357sig Very accurate and stops the perp. As for availability find a good supplier, and then buy in large quantity.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I think unless you are a collector of some sort, fuggedaboutit. :no_ma:

My opinion based upon what I explain below, is that it's a marketing idea for a cartridge in search of a need. But in marketing firearms today all that is needed is a good sales pitch to create a PERCEIVED ADVANTAGE.

The most famous words in marketing ... :shine: ("New and Improved")

Long ago firearms manufacturers figured out that guns are handed down and last seemingly forever. After many breakthroughs in cartridge design, sales leveled out, sales dropped ... we had plenty of good revolvers, then they pushed the New and Improved MAGNUM revolvers, then the hi capacity autos, then the larger caliber hi-cap autos, now necked-down bottlenecks ... ho-hum to be expected.

Same with cartridges. Why are there so many .24 caliber and 7mm and .30 caliber rounds? They create new sizzle and excitement and sales. Bringing out a new cartridge allows the manufacturer to place a "PROPRIETARY" name in that cartridge FOREVER stamped by law onto every gun of every make ever made that uses that proprietary cartridge.

Examples: My Ruger had .44 Remington Magnum stamped upon it. My Taurus had .40 S&W stamped upon it ... get it? What better product placement for your brand than upon a competitor's gun? Now SIG has it's own proprietary cartridge for eternity ... It's very subliminal by design, but my major was marketing and I used to wholesale guns to retailers so I caught on quickly... it WORKS.

It's another INDUSTRY out to make annual PROFITS and they push their wares through gun writers and movies. You can figure it out about every other product but guns, because we are immersed in reading and absorbing messages, to better fill a need, which is the all important motovator of perceived personal SAFETY. They surely pull our purse strings a lot, could it be any other way? Should we invest always in the "New Improved, Unlike Any Other" pitch they give us for guns? Don't you think this industry knows how to hype? Beware your gun dollars go to hype, unless you don't care.

I owned a 13-shot Taurus 101 .40S&W pistol based upon the Beretta 92/96 design and believe me, it had a LOT of destructive power when tested upon dry phonebooks beside a 9mm parabellum and 9mm Makarov, I mean twice as much hole, deeper, and bigger mushrooms. I would rather have a good auto pistol in the .40 S&W caliber than any other SERIOUS fighting handgun myself, feeling the .40 S&W is near the optimum winning compromise of any.

I used to take a very-fit 30-something year-old gentleman fishing every winter as a guide/boat captain (ending 8 years ago) who REALLY WAS an 'agent' in various capacity working for the Dept. of Defense and was indeed called upon at times to support the secret service in protecting the President. Other assignments he mentioned are nothing I can talk about... Having great respect for his opinion, I asked what pistol and caliber he would wish for most in a firefight ... He said without hesitation, "A Beretta 92 in 9mm" I asked why not a .40 or .45? He said he was trained in many suppression-fire techniques that relied on a lot of quick shots, and besides, a solid hit (on the spot) with a 9mm HP would works as well he felt as a solid hit from a .45... I asked if he was trained to "touch twice" ... he said "What?" I said you know, double tap, shoot him twice... he half-smiled and said, "No ... I just keep shooting until the threat is neutralized." I respected his methods and opinions highly myself.

The primary advantage of a semi-auto pistol is firepower, including the number of cartridges it holds. By using the .40 diameter case for a .357 diameter bullet, this is a way to reduce magazine capacity and still keep a small frontal diameter 9mm bullet... why? Is the advantage worth losing 26% of bullet frontal area, and on average about 24% of bullet mass?

Consider the Ballistics Tables from Speer Ammo ... a tale of two bullets similar to what is pictured below:


Gold Dot Personal Protection - 357 SIG
Bullet Wt. 125gr Bullet Type GDHP

Velocity(in feet per second)
Muzzle.... 50 yards.. 100 yards
1350...... 1184...... 1066
Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle.... 50 yards.. 100 yards
506........ 389........ 316
Trajectory if sighted at 25 yards Test Barrel Length 4"
25 yards. 50 yards. 75 yards. 100 yards
0.0......... -0.5........ -2.5........ -6.2

Gold Dot Personal Protection - 40 S&W
Bullet Wt. 155gr Bullet Type GDHP

Velocity(in feet per second)
Muzzle.... 50 yards.. 100 yards
1200...... 1063...... 974
Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle.... 50 yards .. 100 yards
496........ 389........ 326
Trajectory if sighted at 25 yards Test Barrel Length 4"
25 yards. 50 yards. 75 yards. 100 yards
0.0......... -0.8........ -3.6........ -8.4

• Difference in Frontal Area 26% favoring the .40S&W
• Difference in Bullet Mass 24% favoring the .40S&W
• Difference in Muzzle Energy 2% favoring the .357 SIG
• Difference in 100yd Energy 3% favoring the .40S&W
• Difference in 100yd trajectory drop below 25yd line of sight is just 2.2 inches favoring the .357 SIG.

You say it's more accurate... Do you think a 4" barrel hadgun will allow you to tell the difference in point of impact of just 2" drop, 100yds away? I can't shoot that well for sure. Besides most defensive scenarios are less than 7 yards, and 21-foot defense is not helped by a target gun.

The Speer GDHP load of 125gr in .357 S&W Magnum 4" barrel revolver has 10% more energy and a 1" flatter 100yd trajectory than the .357 SIG Speer GDHP.

Source of ballistics tables used: http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

This is a necked-down cartridge for essentially no reason I can see. Other necked-down cartridges to consider might be a .243 from a necked-down .308 or a .25-06 from a 30-06 ... done for a slight edge in a flatter trajectory. But the price is less reliability for dangerous game stopping power.

If you MUST STOP a charging moose or bear, would you prefer a squeezed-down 243 or 25-06? Or like me ... a full-size .308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield round of similar bullet construction? ... Then WHY would you do the same trick for so negligible payoff in a .40 S&W necked down to .357 SIG? If I necked-down a 9mm Parabellum to .32 caliber, do you think it would improve on the 9mm in any way?.. But IF it works for the .357 SIG ...?

For reloading this I'd pass on it since it seats on the shoulder and the case mouth. It has a small band with which to grip the jacketed bullet unlike the straight walled .40 and few or no easy crimping options like a .357 revolver.

The 357 Sig bullet 'can' creep or slip into the case, even with brand new factory ammo, based on my experience. While this condition can occur with most all calibers, the 357 Sig only has approximately 1/8" of neck to hold the bullet, although that is sufficient if the round is loaded correctly. Another issue which is discussed in item 13 below, is that the 357 Sig shoulder may not always be positioned correctly, which can cause strange light primer strikes and ignition problems.This is especially critical for those that constantly unload and reload the same duty ammo into their gun over and over again, possibly for months.
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IVG15.html

The .357 SIG has a SAAMI Max pressure of 40,000psi but can raise to 50,000psi with additional bullet setback of just 1/10th of an inch... meanwhile .357 magnum and .40S&W have a max of only 35,000psi... lower pressure is good with me.
http://le.atk.com/pdf/357_SIG_Setbac...s-Pressure.pdf

Most gunfight altercations are in low light and there may be a large muzzle flash as described for the .357 SIG, and this is decidedly not good thing in shooting to stop a fight or avoiding being shot. I fired one handed to me at the indoor shooting range 6 months ago, after the concussion almost stopped me from shooting next to the owner beside me just 4 feet away... it was ... a real BLAST, yes.

To me this is a souped-up 9mm with a .40 caliber shot capacity now being pushed as a new improved whiz-bang to LEOs and civilians... Nothing else I can see in it, BUT I"M SURE IT WORKS WELL... but why bother? Hey, I'm open to learning ... maybe it's magic? It looks way cool! :ok: Have fun and enjoy the caliber if you will, but I say fuggedaboutit and stay with a good ol' .40 cal, as it was originated from the 10mm design... :sleepy13: I'm done, sorry to go on writing like this here.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

There is nothing wrong with new calibers. Sure, I can shoot a 12 gauge but I prefer 20 and 28 even more so..
I prefer .357 sig over .40 S&W
And as for reloading 357 sig, I have no problem with it. You just have to choose the right bullet.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

QUOTE:The primary advantage of a semi-auto pistol is firepower, including the number of cartridges it holds. By using the .40 diameter case for a .357 diameter bullet, this is a way to reduce magazine capacity and still keep a small frontal diameter 9mm bullet... why? Is the advantage worth losing 26% of bullet frontal area, and on average about 24% of bullet mass?

Thanks for the dissertation, Koy.

As for the above point, some of the earliest autoloading pistols were chambered in BOTTLENECK cartridges for a reason...FEED RELIABILITY. The Sig is supremely reliable when it comes to FEEDING in an autoloader...9mm bullet into a 40 caliber hole. Think about it. And the 357 Sig is every bit as effective as the .40 in actual street shootings.

The Sig was developed in a attempt to duplicate the ballistics of the 125 jhp 357 magnum from a 4 inch barrel...I think they did an admirable job. Is the 357 Sig for everyone? No. But for the experienced, it is a fine chambering for it's purpose...self-defense, law enforcement.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

where were you when I bought my

FN five seven

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Hey meat you can find 5.7 factory ammo online
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=428067
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/212.php
http://www.munitionstogo.com/fn.htm

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Sweet piece...only problem is that the weapon was designed to fire the SS190 ammo. I guess the SS192 (hollow point) is the preferred ammo at this time, but I'm hearing it is hard to come by. If you find it, you'd better hoard all you can.
20 rnd mags with 10 rnd extention. :ok:
I've heard it is the Hells Angels weapon of choice, I would guess they have access to the good ammo or they're making it?
A friend of mine found 5 boxes of the 192 at the Medina gun show last weekend, for $20 a box.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I had thought of this theoretical feed advantage and almost included in my dis-ertation about the .357 SIG. But I could find no supporting data that the .40 was known to have any so-called 'problem' with feeding. Yet I do think you've got a valid point here. The bottleneck cartridge SHOULD feed more trouble free... :coolbeer: I agree.

And pistol bullets like the .30 caliber Tokarev designed around 1930, and I read that the 7.63x25 Mauser and 7.65x21 parabellum (.30 Luger) were being designed and used even earlier around 1900. With modern hollow points at 1400fps or so these .30 caliber rounds should work very well and these older bottlenecks were proven many times in wars. And Meatman's FN 5.7 is perhaps the ultimate expression of this design theme.

I too think the .357 SIG is a neat design, but remember when they did all that FBI testing to find JUST THE RIGHT bullet to be the end-all and be-all of gunfighting rounds -- and they came up with the 180gr 10mm, then shortened it to the .40 S&W so it would fit in current pistol frames for 9mm? I know you do, but I guess we never really can say what is just right ... and I'm sure the .357 SIG is really very effective, almost like a .357 magnum semi-automatic.

Honestly I agree you here on the round in many ways, TUMS and SilverCity, but I wanted to take a dis-paraging position just so I could write some stuff about cartridges to make some points to consider here on this thread when studying them.

• If we all go along and agree on everything we should worry.
• If we dis-agree it should be in a respectful manner.
• And if we disagree we should serve everyone and ourselves here by stating why.
• I'm just trying to make this GIM firearms forum a better forum, while respecting everyone's well-reasoned and supported point of view, as most of you folks do.

Heck guys, I replaced my .40 PT-101 Tauris .40 with a Taurus 3" chambered .45/410 Judge ... I can make a case for a .22LR pocket pistol ... don't think I'm always representing the conventional wisdom ... I like lots of variety too and enjoy taking a contrarian position.

(And I used to write a weekly outdoor column for a town's newspaper so I'm a bit long winded in my postings maybe ... a confessional, I like to write, oops!)

Just smile at me cause what I say don't even matter ... :36_3_12: ... I know that both the SIG pistols and the 357 SIG cartridge are impressive indeed. And you guys know your stuff so it's FUN to exchange gunning-thoughts with you good shooters all. :ok:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Apparently, Glock engineers think that straight-wall cases feed less reliably than the 357, because they all seem to have more generous chamber dimensions and more aggressive throating than the 357.

For comparison:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

WOW! .357 SIG!!

It's specs ALMOST meet a fifty year old cartridge that is the update of a one hundred plus year old cartridge.

Consider the 7.62x25 that is shot in the CZ-52 or the TT-33 pistols or the PPSh41 or the PPs43 carbines. Which is an update of the .30 Mauser shot in the broomhandle mauser pistol.

The .357 Sig compares closely to the specs of the .30 Mauser, but the round fired from the CZ-52 and the TT-33 plus the two carbines are hotter.

1600 fps with energy levels at 500+ and I will grant you that the 7.62x25 shoots an 85/86 grn bullet, which makes it 40 grns lighter than the .357 Sig round. But neither a barracade nor armor will slow the 7.62x25 round, especially the FMJ surplus stuff that has been said to be 'hot'.

So, the .357 Sig is an update of an update. Still an impressive cartridge. Just not quite as good as the 7.62x25 shot out of a CZ-52 or the PPs43 carbine. And for now at least, ammo is DIRT CHEAP. Buy it by the case. Worth every penny.

Specs are all over google - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...q=1&oq=7.62x25+

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Lord bless you, too Wallew. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

SC,

NOT slanted at you.

The .357 Sig meets both my criteria for a battle gun.

The CALIBER starts with the number 3 OR HIGHER

The BULLET zips out there at 1500 FPS OR HIGHER

Nothing wrong with the .357 Sig. NOTHING.

But lets not pretend that it's the first time this cartridge has been used. IT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 100 years.

I LOVE the bottleneck design. I love the overall specs of this round, though you get similar results from the 'older' version for a lot less $$$ per shot.

Just sayin...

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

No offense taken. My post was related to a private message I received.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I've got a Glock 33 .357 sig that I carry all the time. It's light, easy to carry and packs a wallop. I carry it in a belt holster. I work alone alot when I'm calving out first calf heifers. I can go for days without seeing another person. These heifers sometimes get on the fight and will attack you. People have been crippled and killed in these attacks. Thats why I carry one. I've had some close calls. I carry a round in the chamber and I'm cautious. My Glock seems to be very dependable, every time I pull the trigger it goes Bang! I shot a cow in the head a few days ago with a tt 33 in 7.62x25 and I believe it's about like the 357 Sig. Both are nice pistols. The .357 sig ammo is getting hard to find but I don't ever waste it. I have a lot of the 7.62x25 ammo for the TT33 and that seems plentiful now. I like my model 33 .357 Glock.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Tumbleweed, that sounds hardcore. I don't know if the cows I grew up with were all big range and crazy like yours but I do know a single shot from a 9mm into the air would spook 'em enough to back the hell off you. I cannot imagine needing to shoot a cow in the head. I hope you ate the meat.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Slv When they have their first calf they can get kind of crazy. I sometimes have to catch them and pull the calves. They blame me for all the pain they went through having the calf when I pulled it and I think sometimes would just as soon kill me. A few have tried. Sometimes they go crazy and try to kill their calf and I have to seperate them or they will. I guess you just have to be there to believe it when it happens.

The one I shot a few days a go belonged to a neighbor. She had trouble having a calf and had become paralized. I was just putting her out of her misery.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

I've pulled calves but never had momma get pissed at me. I'd say you've pulled a far sight more than me. I can remember all of maybe 10 I've experienced. Thanks for clarifying why you had to put one down, though.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Slv I've had friends that were attacked by cows and were crippled for life. I've heard of a few people who were killed in attacks. I've had to deal with a lot of cattle who you didn't dare be a foot around. If i'm a horse back they will attack my horse but if they don't have horns it's not too big aproblem for my horse.s Sometimes my horse will bite and kick them when they've had enough.

I've had cows who were having problems calving and needed help. They were on the fight and were butting my horse. I've roped them Then tied them down,pulled the calf and let them up again and they went after my horse again. It's not safe to be afoot around those kind.

This is a picture of a horse who was good help and good company roping and tying down cows. In this picture he is holding a yearling heifer for me to give a shot for foot rot.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44...526/2356x8.jpg


I work alone alot and if one would get me down and I couldn't get away from her I would shoot her because it might be days before anyone would even wonder where I am.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

Looking at the pic and reading your descriptions I can only surmise that more space equals wilder cattle. The cattle we raised weren't pets but they were mostly docile. The bulls were really only a problem when there was a lot of cows in heat. Even then you just grabbed their nose ring and they were yours. We were working with 100 acres or so and only about 50 was pasture.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

"Looking at the pic and reading your descriptions I can only surmise that more space equals wilder cattle"

Slv I would have to agree with your statement above. That's what it seems like to me too. Also Ranchers don't get rid of cows that are mean but farmers and smaller operators do seem to because they are so difficult to handle and deal with.

Re: What are your thoughts on the .357 SIG round?
 

If it is to be your only gun, go with ammo that is more widely available.

If you are looking for a really great round, and this isn't your Mad Max gun, you won't be let down.

Swappable barrels are nice, for a number of reasons.